Mark Danner: Bush Lied About Torture of...
AMY GOODMAN: So, Mark Danner, did President Bush lie?
MARK DANNER: Yes. Yeah, he did.
You know, I should say, Amy, presidents lie. There are a number of, you know, fairly compelling historical examples of it. One is President Eisenhower with Gary Francis—Francis Gary Powers, the U-2 pilot who was shot down over the Soviet Union. President Eisenhower came out and bluntly said, “No, no, no, this didn’t happen,” or “This isn’t our pilot,” or “We didn’t do it.” And he was exposed. He was lying. He was doing it for what he thought were genuine national security reasons. President Nixon lied on a number of very well-documented occasions.
And I think, on the repeated occasions that President George W. Bush said, “We do not torture. I have not ordered it. I will not order it,” yes, I think he was lying. I think he, from what we can tell, did it for reasons that he thought were important to the country. I think he ordered these things for reasons that he thought were important to the country. I don’t think this was out of sadism or evil or anything else. I think that the President believed he was acting in the best interests of the citizens of the United States. But I do think that it’s simply unequivocal that he said things that were not true, and he knowingly said that they weren’t true.
You know, I suppose one could argue that he really believed what he said. You know, but at a certain point, as children find out at a very young age, courtesy of their parents, simply believing something doesn’t make it true. You know, these things happen in objective reality. They happen as a result of orders high up in the administration. These activities were monitored very closely as they happened, not only by CIA officials in Langley, Virginia, who were in close contact with the interrogators from the beginning and hourly, but by officials across the river in the White House. There’s a clear record of briefings by the then-CIA Director George Tenet of the Principals Committee in the White House. The Principals Committee includes the Vice President, then Dick Cheney; the then-Secretary of State Colin Powell; then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld; then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice; the then-Attorney General of the United States, the highest law enforcement officer of the United States, John Ashcroft. All of these people, as a matter of record, were being briefed on these particular techniques that were being used on detainees and that are set out, very graphically, I might add, in the report and quoted in the New York Review of Books article.
Mar 18th